To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll artwork

Documentary · Rubrik | Nicole Perlroth

To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll

by Rubrik | Nicole Perlroth

American companies are being infiltrated—not by hackers breaking in, but by workers.  Thousands of North Korean operatives are applying to jobs across the U.S.—and getting them. They are embedding themselves at Fortune 500 companies. Government agencies. Critical infrastructure. Even the firms tasked with stopping this threat. To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll is a first-of-its-kind audio documentary exposing this global labor pipeline—one that is quietly funneling hundreds of millions of dollars a year back to the regime, and its nuclear weapons program.  Host Nicole Perlroth, bestselling author and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Times, takes listeners inside this hidden network—from a rare, inside look at a North Korean IT worker on the job, to interviews with defectors who escaped it, to knocking on the doors of Americans hosting “laptop farms” on North Korea's behalf. Along the way, the series reveals how this playbook is creating a hiring freeze for American workers, in a challenging job market. And how it has metastasized—adopted by cybercriminal groups and fraud networks around the world—blurring the line between nation-state espionage and organized crime. To Catch a Thief is co-produced by Nicole Perlroth and Rubrik in partnership with Pod People.  To Catch a Thief was written and produced by Nicole Perlroth, along with Khrista Rypl, T. J. Raphael, Rebecca Chaisson and Sam Gebauer. Additional thanks to Allie Pinel, Fendall Fulton, Krissy Clark, Cai Lee, Eunice Park and Aimee Machado. Editing and Sound Design by Erica Huang. Art direction and design by Ben Long, Gareth Strange and Sarah Burley at the John & Jane Agency, and support from John Leestma. 

Latest episodes

Showing 19 · updated from the feed

Ep. 6: The North Korea Model

North Korea has now successfully planted agents in companies over the world. And while businesses are getting better at flagging it, North Koreans still have to meet quot

Jul 14
58 min

Ep. 5: The Heists

In the decade after Sony, North Korea learned something fundamental: Destructive cyberattacks make headlines. Financial cyberattacks make money. One year after Sony, Nort

Jul 7
1 h 00 min

Ep. 4: The Sony Playbook

It’s been nearly 12 years since North Korea launched its crippling attack on Sony Pictures Entertainment over a Seth Rogen film. Most Americans remember the celebrity lea

Jun 30
45 min

Ep. 3: The Americans

All North Korean IT worker schemes hinge on one thing: a willing participant in America. We found one, and knocked on her door. Experts have dubbed some of these American

Jun 23
53 min

Ep. 2: The Cell

Infiltrating the infiltrators. For the first time ever, host and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Times Nicole Perlroth partners

Jun 16
56 min

Ep. 1: Strange Things Are Happening

A new breed of worker is quietly clocking in across the United States. They’re writing code. Managing your passwords. Training the next generation of AI models. They’re g

Jun 9
54 min

Season 2 Trailer: An “inside-out” look at North Korea’s covert IT workforce

To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll is a gripping investigative podcast exposing how thousands of North Korean operatives are quietly getting hired inside Americ

Jun 4
5 min

OUT OF BAND | The Breaking Point: Inside Mythos' Zero-Day Machine with Anthropic's Nicholas Carlini

Nicole Perlroth sits down with Nicholas Carlini for an Out of Band conversation on the imminent zero-day surge. Carlini explains what Mythos can already do: find and expl

May 4
1 h 16 min

Ep 9: The New Frontline

Colonial Pipeline was a warning shot. Now, Chinese hackers are inside the digital guts of hundreds of Colonial equivalents across the U.S.—power, water, transportation, a

May 29 2025
1 h 41 min

Ep 8: Living Off The Land

Cyber experts start getting called into electric, water, pipeline, railway, and transportation hubs around the country. Hackers have found a clever way to embed in these

May 5 2025
34 min

Ep 7: Everything Everywhere All At Once

The General Manager of an electric and water utility in Littleton, Mass. gets a surprise call from the FBI. At first he suspects the caller is a spammer, but soon he lear

Apr 28 2025
45 min

Ep 6: The Gunslingers

During China’s pseudo-cyber-hiatus, the PRC’s hacking operations get a major overhaul. CCP leadership moves responsibility away from the sloppy, brazen hackers at the Peo

Apr 14 2025
32 min

Ep 5: A Cyber Detente

Every U.S. administration, dating back to President H.W. Bush has struggled to address the threat of Chinese trade theft. But a growing sense of urgency kicks in as Ameri

Apr 7 2025
45 min

Ep 4: Naming and Shaming

As Chinese hackers continue their raid of American companies, the threat reaches new levels of urgency, not so much for the sophistication of these hackers, but because o

Mar 31 2025
40 min

BONUS: Live Panel with Top China & Cyber Experts at The New York Stock Exchange

For this special live recording of To Catch a Thief at The New York Stock Exchange, host and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Tim

Mar 27 2025
1 h 08 min

Ep 3: The Most Dangerous Time in American History

In Episode 3, host and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Times, Nicole Perlroth visits a welding shop in rural Wisconsin where Chi

Mar 24 2025
41 min

Ep 2: Then They Came for Us

Google discloses its hack and points the finger squarely at Beijing, which spells the end for Google’s business ambitions in China. Other victims stay silent, too fearful

Mar 17 2025
34 min

Ep 1: The Five Poisons

Former NSA Director Keith Alexander called it “the greatest transfer of wealth in history.” Hillary Clinton, FBI Director James Comey and President Barack Obama also soun

Mar 17 2025
39 min

Coming Soon - To Catch a Thief: China’s Rise to Cyber Supremacy

American companies, whole towns, have been eviscerated by Chinese cyberattacks. But their stories remain untold, even as the stakes get higher and the targets more reckle

Mar 4 2025
2 min

Chart trend

Position in the Documentary chart (US), last 90 days.

#1
all-time peak
12
days in the top 3 since Mar 2025

Chart positions

Where To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll ranks today in each Apple Podcasts chart (US, Sep 25, 2026).

#138 ▲ 19 Documentary US

What listeners say

A curated, balanced selection of Apple Podcasts reviews.

Despite having worked in cybersecurity awareness and education for years, I’m learning as much here as I did from Nicole’s book. Great podcast!

JanetR12 · Mar 2026

This is a story of threats to U.S. National Security that needs to be heard and taken seriously. Don’t be scared off or intimidated if it sounds geeky or too technical for your understanding. Nicole Perlroth is a gifted story teller who has taken a potentially complicated topic and framed it into a sitting-on-the-edge-of-your-seat drama that’s compelling no matter how much you think you know. In today’s world where western society has found ways to make anything and everything a partisan issue, this warning—this story is a wake up call after all—is not a political one. It describes an existential threat to our highly connected and digitally dependent way of life. Have a listen, and as Nicole says at the end herself, find a way you can put your finger on the scale, and PRESS DOWN!

BearLdr · Jun 2025

This podcast should terrify people and not just because it reveals how easily U.S. pipelines, grids, and institutions can be shut down, but because no one in power wants to stop it. CISA’s has been gutted. TikTok bans are political theater. Jeff Bezos cuts million-dollar checks to the grifter-in-chief, while Amazon sells Chinese-made routers that quietly dismantle the U.S. economy, one backdoor at a time. Xi doesn’t need a military. He already has access through your smart fridge, your Ring camera, and your dependency on cheap, connected tech. This vulnerability isn’t accidental. It’s systemic. These aren’t one-off failures—they’re the scaffolding: A nation founded on slavery, still fueled by racial capitalism, where Black Americans have long survived oppression by masking intelligence, outmaneuvering power structures by pretending not to threaten them. That legacy is still alive, still misunderstood. Forced births and medical torture, sold as “pro-life,” where 10-year-olds are forced to give birth to their uncle’s baby, and brain-dead women are kept alive to gestate. Cue real-life Handmaid’s Tale. Under His Eye. A healthcare system that profits off death and desperation, where people stay in abusive jobs for bad insurance, and UnitedHealthcare lets you die waiting for a prior auth. A grifter-in-chief, parading as a savior, who is selling off credibility and infrastructure, isolating the U.S., alienating allies, undermining global coalitions, cozying up to dictators, pretending to care about the debt to sway voters, then passing bills that screw over the very people who voted for him. All while claiming he knows what he’s doing, then tantruming when reality disagrees. And a population so battered by misinformation, fear, and convenience addiction that they no longer believe anything meaningful unless it comes from Joe Rogan or Barstool. And who engineers that misinformation? The same billionaires who own the platforms, the data, the media, and the narrative. Let’s be real: Land of the free, home of the Crumbls, eating a $25 cookie on your way home from your likely thankless job for a dopamine hit, while dodging the crumbling infrastructure. To Catch a Thief doesn’t just expose how China is stealing from the US. It shows how the US left the door open, handed over the keys, and then laughed at anyone who tried to sound the alarm. Classic Dunning-Kruger in action. The empire isn’t falling. The collapse is being livestreamed with a ring light, a Crumbl cookie, and a busted axle.

Cate144 · May 2025

Excellent podcast. Very informative. Scary stuff but so good to know. Appreciate the gentle approach to political issues

Rowdy 2024 · May 2025

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