Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending?
Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds.
This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out.
New episodes post every Thursday.
You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.
www.theargumentmag.com
Latest episodes
Showing 20 · updated from the feed
The fight over permitting reform, explained
Why are so many environmentalists against permitting reform? Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias explain the bipartisan permitting reform bill and why many environmental g
Oct 22 1 h 31 min
Canceling (and un-canceling) historic heroes
Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias debate which historical figures deserve to be canceled and which shouldn’t have been. With the Trump administration pushing to restore
Oct 15 1 h 20 min
Trump, Xi, and the race for superintelligence
ChinaTalk's Jordan Schneider joins Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias to compare how the U.S. and China are approaching artificial intelligence. They dive into the Trump-
Oct 8 1 h 25 min
What the hell is going on in Europe?
How can Europe's liberals stop the far-right? Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas debate the far right's rise in Germany, France, and beyond, and whether Europe's mainstre
Oct 1 1 h 01 min
How worried should we be about AI?
Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias debate whether artificial intelligence poses an existential risk to human civilization, or if that idea is just a dangerous distraction
Sep 24 1 h 13 min
Are we on the road to serfdom?
For this month’s book club, Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read Friedrich von Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom,” the 1944 book that argued central planning inevitably lea
Sep 17 1 h 35 min
How 9/11 changed American politics forever
As the 25th anniversary of the September 11 attacks approaches, Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias look back at the day itself, the warning signs that preceded it, and th
Sep 10 1 h 37 min
Nate Silver on why the center-left is losing
Nate Silver thinks the center-left might be right about a lot of policy questions, but they're still losing the political argument. He joins Jerusalem Demsas, Matt Yglesi
Sep 3 1 h 26 min
Derek Thompson on the antisocial century
Americans are spending more time alone than ever before. Derek Thompson, author of "The Anti-Social Century" and co-author of Abundance, joins Jerusalem Demsas and Matthe
Aug 27 1 h 16 min
Are elites just whoever you don’t like?
Who actually counts as an elite in America?
The Argument ran its own poll on elite perception, and the results scramble a lot of conventional wisdom. Billionaires and ce
Aug 20 1 h 14 min
What's wrong with Bowling Alone?
Is there really a loneliness crisis?
Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone, the 2000 classic that diagnosed America's collapse in communi
Aug 13 1 h 23 min
#MeToo didn’t go far enough
Many people say the #MeToo movement went too far. Jerusalem Demsas disagrees: she thinks it didn't go far enough. Matt Yglesias wants to talk about what the movement actu
Aug 6 1 h 17 min
You don't actually want to buy a house
Most Americans still see buying a home as the ultimate financial goal, but Jerusalem Demsas thinks homeownership is overrated. Matt Yglesias, a proud homeowner, disagrees
Jul 30 57 min
Why AI might not replace us after all
Most Americans fear that AI is about to cause widespread job losses, so Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas brought in their first-ever guest, Timothy B. Lee of the Unders
Jul 23 1 h 05 min
What AOC and Bernie Sanders get wrong about the oligarchy
Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have been packing arenas on their "Fighting Oligarchy" tour, but Matt Yglesias doesn't think the oligarchy is real. Jerusalem
Jul 16 1 h 09 min
Was Jane Jacobs the first NIMBY?
For this month's book club, Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read The Death and Life of Great American Cities, the 1961 classic that changed how everyone thinks about n
Jul 9 1 h 26 min
Is assimilation racist?
Should immigrants have to assimilate? Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias take on the growing idea that immigrants shouldn't have to assimilate to belong in America. Jerus
Jul 2 1 h 12 min
The Biden legacy: A ranking of failures
The Bidens are back in the news, thanks to Jill Biden’s new book and Joe’s apparent difficulties raising money for his presidential library. So Jerusalem Demsas and Matth
Jun 25 1 h 18 min
Andrew Tate, Dan Bilzerian, and the death of romance
Is online dating advice actually making it harder to find love?
This week, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias wade into the world of online dating advice, from the m
Jun 18 1 h 04 min
How environmentalists lost the plot
Is modern environmentalism anti-progress?
This week, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias read Rachel Carson's Silent Spring – the book that launched the modern environ
Jun 11 1 h 12 min
Chart trend
Position in the News chart (US), last 90 days.
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#54
all-time peak
8
days in the top 100 since Sep 2025
Chart positions
Where The Argument ranks today in each Apple Podcasts chart (US, Oct 23, 2026).
A curated, balanced selection of Apple Podcasts reviews.
I appreciate the time spent getting deeper into a single topic per episode instead of rushing through numerous items. There have been several thought provoking conversations and the book read episodes have been interesting too.
Please please please slow down. It too often sounds like a debate club participant rushing to score points. It’s not necessary and really off-putting. I shouldn’t have to stop the podcast for a mental break because words are flying so fast. Just talk, don’t slam through every sentence. Speaking super fast doesn’t make your point better, it makes it harder to follow.
Oscaraa3 · Aug 2026
I was really excited when the current iteration of this pod became a thing because I’m a very long time fan of both hosts. Topic selection and substance of conversations were unsurprisingly great from day 1. A somewhat unexpected development over the past 4 months I’ve listened is that I find myself laughing quite a bit listening. This podcast migrating from the commentary to the commentary/humor category for me was cemented listening to the 7/23 AI episode with Yglesias bringing up his affection for the Chili’s in Bangor (which was funny) and Jerusalem saying “that’s not very on brand for you” (both funny and objectively true)
Saraelzp · Jul 2026
Update: subtracting two stars because Demsas is magic on her own, but Demsas/Yglesias is just fine.
Not sure Demsas would see this as a compliment, but I see a lot of similarities between what she’d doing at The Argument and what Bari Weiss accomplished at TFP. Both are renewal projects for the American journalistic landscape, and both have me very excited about the future of American media. Recently, Bari Weiss identified the need for a loud, charismatic voice to represent American centrists like myself. Then this podcast appeared shortly thereafter! It’s left leaning, but fair-minded about conservative ideas and policies. I love this podcast!
quitemichael · Jul 2026
Jerusalem and Matt cover a range of interesting topics and go deeper than most other shows while still keeping the discussion lively and approachable.
Brian1093 · May 2026
We strive to present a balanced view by showing a diverse range of reviews from Apple Podcasts.
Here you find the Apple Podcasts chart positions of The Argument, its latest episodes to listen to directly, and reviews from listeners. Rankings are updated daily for the United States.
